Yes…the spelling in the title is correct. I am going to reluctantly revisit the airplane incident with Joel and Victoria Osteen that happened last Christmas. By far the most visited post I have ever written was in regards to the tepid apology that Mrs.Osteen issued after the incident. I finally removed the post after it became merely a feedback repository for partisan shots. The comments became a back and forth series between those who support the Osteen’s and their ministry versus those who do not. It became a spectacular exercise in missing the point. The ministry of Joel and Victoria Osteen was never the focus of my article. I became frustrated and dismayed with the discourse so I removed the post.
My argument was never about the Osteen’s ministry, mega-churches, celebrity Christians, or any of the issues raised by many of those who posted feedback. My focus was on accountability for everyone in the body of Christ and our responsibility to respond with graciousness and humility. Immediately after the initial story was reported I wrote these words.
“I pray that the Osteens will handle this in a way that demonstrates the humility and grace of Jesus. We all make mistakes. It is how we respond to them that can make a difference. Repenting and repairing by asking forgiveness is a very good way to practice damage control.”
A couple of days later a letter was posted on the church website from Victoria Osteen.
Regardless of how some have portrayed the situation, please know that it was truly a minor misunderstanding and did not escalate into what you saw or read in the news. Contrary to those reports it was my choice to remove myself from the situation. Nonetheless, it was a most unfortunate event and I truly regret that it happened.
The last thing I would ever want to do is let any of you down. And I promise you that I did not act in any way that would cast a bad light on you, my family, Lakewood Church or our Lord Jesus Christ. I value the position that God has placed me in and I can assure you that I will always walk in love and integrity. While I am not perfect, I will always seek to be a peacemaker and seek the high road.
I was disappointed in Victoria Osteen’s response. She never wrote the words “I am sorry” or “please forgive me” for this incident. I wonder if either of those phrases would have tempered what was reported this week. A recent article in the Dallas Morning News had this sad news.
The wife of nationally known pastor and author Joel Osteen was sued this week by a Continental Airlines flight attendant who said she was assaulted by her on a flight. The Federal Aviation Administration fined Victoria Osteen $3,000 for interfering with a crew member during a Christmas vacation flight to Vail, Colo., on Dec. 19. Ms. Osteen paid the fine in August to put the issue to rest, her attorney Rusty Hardin told the Houston Chronicle. She believes “very, very strongly” that she did nothing wrong, Mr. Hardin said.
But the reality is that something happened. There was a disagreement that was strong enough for the family to leave the plane and delay the flight. No matter how minor or major the misunderstanding that event inconvenienced a lot of people. So it seemed to me that some words of contrition would have been helpful. When you are a visible and vocal representative of Jesus, whether it’s at a megachurch or a mini mart, you are representing Jesus everyday and every moment. I can guarantee you that if I display unseemly behavior the first thing that will pop into the minds of those who know me will be “I wonder if that is in his wonderful little Christian books?”. One of my biggest fears in writing books (and these daily ramblings) was that I have put myself on the line for the rest of my life. My actions will be evaluated in light of what I have written and said. Fair? Probably not. But it is a fact.
But the reality is that simply announcing “I am a Christian” does exactly the same thing for anyone reading these words. Your failures likely won’t make the news but they may do just as much damage. Here is the lesson for all of us. When we inevitably fail we need to remember the five R’s of reconciliation.
- Review – evaluate your actions prayerfully in the light of His Holy Spirit
- Repent – turn toward God and away from your sin
- Repair – seek out those who have been affected and seek forgiveness
- Reject Excuses – don’t negate the power of forgiveness by saying something like I am sorry but I was having a bad day. Just say I am sorry or please forgive me. Period.
- Rejoice – in a gracious God who forgives us time after time after time.
Can we do anything less if we truly stop and consider His grace to us? I squirm a bit when I write articles like this. I look in the mirror and reflect on the thought that I am the wretch the song is talking about. And I always know that someone will write a response to me with a lot of ALL CAPS and they will use the verse from Matthew to let me know I am a judgmental jerk.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
I think we have so broadly applied this teaching that we have ceased to hold ourselves, and others, accountable in how all of us represent Christ. Remember that Jesus was addressing the religious people who talked about godliness but acted entirely differently. I am to evaluate myself by the standards of God’s Word, and yes, the standard should be higher for me because I have publicly identified myself as a follower of Christ. I want others to hold me accountable. In fact, I was confronted a couple of years ago by a person who informed me that my actions did not match my public testimony. I was grateful because I was able to repent and ask forgiveness of that person and others. That is the standard we set for ourselves as Christians. I cannot judge the motives or heart of Mrs. Osteen or anyone else. I do believe that she could have diffused this situation with a different response. But my focus is squarely on myself. How will I respond when I face frustration in life?
I pray that I will offer a loving and grace filled response. But the reality is that I may need to humble myself and seek forgiveness. Both glorify the name of Jesus.
Peter adams
I am from down under and must admit that I am not a real osteen fan at all– however I would like to point out something– and this isnt a judgement on whether there is guilt there or not. I have found that when there are christians involved, satan tends to try and paint a picture of one of Gods kids as though they had horns and were the worst person around,he will magnify and blow out even the smallest and most innocent of situations,and he will do the same thing with Gods kids when they are at fault.(have you ever lost your cool or done anything wrong since you became a christian). Im sure all our Lord would want from this situation would be to pray a blessing on all concerned and that anyone concerned will have a change of heart for the good, I pray that blessing myself now.please join me,oh and take the time to add anyone in that you feel may have done you wrong in the past.God bless ya all.xxxxx
Joy hansen
I appreciate the tenor of this discussion. As Christians we will be tested by all kinds of provocations and accusations. I know from recent experience, that It is hard not to stir the pot or get defensive. We must not let anything steal our joy or our witness.
Regrettably, there are people who repeatedly accuse others falsely and a gracious apology can serve as “proof” of guilt. I usually opt to apologize anyway, but I am not responsible for an entire ministry as the Osteens are. Apparently the flight attendant had previously made a similar unsubstantiated assault accusation against a fellow flight attendant.
In a recent sermon, the Osteens emphasized the importance of sending up praise to God in advance of trying situations/confrontations in order to receive favor and blessing. I have started to practice this and found that it works and that a more poetic justice results from it, complete with any lessons I may need to learn in order to have even more joy and a better witness.
rere
You know we all have our opinions of what should and should not have happened but what we are all missing here is that the primary focus of our Christianity is pleasing God and I think neither of these women are behaving like our Lord would in this situation. Don’t get me wrong, none of us are perfect, not even the leaders of our churches and this just shows that our faith should be in God not man, however, Jesus was done many injustices in His time yet he did not feel the need to “stand up” for Himself as seems to be the common theme in these messages. And even if each woman felt they were doing just that, the more you let an unresolved thing linger, the more pride builds up and the harder it is to go back and be humble… I believe that’s why God said don’t let the sun go down on your wrath… Both ladies should exercise the true humility of what this Chrisitian life is all about. We are called to love one another, even our enemies and while we all have our million scenarios of what happened on that fateful day, the bottom line is we are called to be the salt of the earth and truly to judge not, but rather exhort one another daily.
We are quick to believe the worst about one another than to think about them in love. This is not what Corinthians 13 lays out about LOVE. This is the cornerstone of all we do as Christians and lets not forget… even those of us that feel it our obligation to share our opinions whatsoever, let’s do it in love and not in a … casting stones manner… after all we have our sins and imperfections too. They’re just not on national television as the Osteens and others. Hmmm… I wonder how our story would be told if there were cameras waiting for each of us to make the wrong move…
misa
This is a good point. I hadn’t thought of it that way, but that would probably have been better for her to have apologized.
LN
I really enjoy Joel Osteen’s messages/sermons. I hope his response to all this is very Christian-like, so he can continue to touch people’s lives. We need sincere folk in the christian ministry as that is what the christian message is all about. We do not need flashy- fame and riches- seeking, so called christian evangelists,sitting on gold gilded throne like chairs, who give a bad name to Christ and his followers…
Susie
I can’t help but wonder what would’ve happened if Mrs. Osteen had asked for some napkins or something so that she could clean up the liquid on the tray?
Araceli Branzuela
I believe that Christians will not act like that. Maybe they were provoked by an erring flight attendant that is not doing their job well. And this flight attendant has personal problem and she responded to a simple request of customer of taking care of the spill as a big deal. The Airline company should again train their staff on good manners and right conduct. And she had the guts to claim for damages of what?? This is a picture of HOW greed for MONEY will do to a person, even to the extent of LYING. Hope the truth will come out and let justice reign.
Ray
Victoria obviously stepped way out the mark. The FAA fined her $3000 for not complying with a flightcrew request, she ended up delaying the flight by 2 hours. Because she is rich & famous doesnt give her the right to behave badly & that it escalated to that level . However I now think the flight attendant smells the $.
Steven Fisher
If we think back a couple of years this same type of incident happened to Dr. Schullar. To me this looks like someone who just wants to make a couple of quick bucks and where does it end. Just think if we had Lawyers in Jesus’s day when he overturned the tables in the Temple don’t you think he caused the merchents anxiety and stress. If that Stewardess is that weak and soft I surely don’t want her on my plane what would she do in an emergency. Oh yea that’s right SUE.
Wizburf816
Let who is without sin cast the first stone. I am quite sure that all of us have handled a situation or two inappropriately that reflected poorly on our claim to be a Christian. Who is to question or judge what God is doing in the lives of the Osteen family and everyone else involved in this situation? He allowed the incident on the plane to happen so His mercy and love would shine through in the end. The Lord also allows events to occur in our lives to refine our characters as Christians and to draw us closer to Him. The truth about what actually happened on that airplane will eventually be revealed. If Mrs. Osteen was at fault, I am quite sure she will make the appropriate gestures as a Christian woman towards the offended persons. If she was the one wronged, then I am quite sure she will also handle the situation in an appropriate Christian manner. What we are called to do as brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus is to pray for the truth to be revealed and for the Lord’s mercy and love to shine through the entire situation.
mg
This is a prime example of someone wanting free money. Hemerhoids? Lost my faith? Mental anguish? Over a little spat about a spill. Come on, It’s one more person wanting to ger free money and not work.
Mimi
I can’t count how many tables I’ve been seated at (in retail establishments) that were stained with food or spills or both and had not yet been wiped. If it was excessive, I asked for it to be cleaned. If a napkin was available, I’d wipe it myself.
That being said, the only consistent fact here is the size of the spill.. Was it worth words of any kind – much less the alleged actions? Also, I can’t see how somebody’s true belief in God is swayed by someone else’s being allegedly rude or combative -however, the idolism someone here mentioned might be.
Demanding money for mental pain and suffering is greed, pure and simple. With this case, lawsuititis has hit a new low.
fra
True humility is not quick to expose our brothers or sisters in the Lord_lest we be exposed and humilated ourselves. Naming and pointing out ministers or ministries of any kind is not, especially with a global audience, does not glorify God and certainly doesn’t impress sinners. The incident that occurred is unfortunate for everyone, but not one of us was there to witness what actually took place. And none of us have been picked as jurors with the authorization to make judgment about the incident either. One thing I’ve learned as a God-fearing person who has been employed in the professional legal realm for years is this – things aren’t always as they seem to the naked eye. Right now as these ministers face trial, I pray that every high thought and imagination that exalts itself above the name of Jesus shall be pulled down into captivity. Every lieing spirit released through false accusations against these ministers and their church body shall be broken and come to naught. I pray a hedge about them, that they shall walk in victory and in the power of His Word. Every fowl spirit that sets itself against God’s people, these ministers, and their church, to rob them of finances and integrity by making false allegations, shall not prosper. If God be for them, WHO can stand against them. This is the way we ought to be, one for another. Amen.
Judy
Why not check out the past of the flight attendant? Has she had mental problems or money problems before? The Osteens are people of integrity no matter what is said here. Body of Christ pray ! The truth will prevail.
Margaret
Why automatically assume Victoria is guilty, just because someone made an accusation (especially someone who is trying to get an outrageous amount of money from her)? Some people have no qualms about distorting or exaggerating the truth–especially to gain lots of money. Aren’t we innocent until proven guilty? Shouldn’t the facts be presented first?
Wendy Gaschler
Everyone is commenting about what Jesus would have done and how a christain sould always be the bigger person and apologize. Im not sure I agree with that. Jesus was one to say turn the other cheek but he also was a very strong personality, chased the money changers from the synogog. Never did he apologize to the people who crusifed him . When being convicted of a crime he simply said it is true “he did proclaim to be the son of God and King of the Jews”. He did not apologize for who he was. There were many false accusers who tried to compare him to satan him self. So I say, I see another human being Chistian woman who has become a public figure being persecuted all for financial gain. Im sure she is not perfect but I also say why offer an apology if you feel you are not wrong. Should she offer an apology just because some one has accused her of something? Should she pray for this other woman yes. I dont think Jesus Christ would want his people to be enablers of those who seek to persucte or falsely accuse. The judge and jury in this case will make the final decision and we have to trust in the system we have in place. Im personally glad she is fighting this and not just laying back and saying here take my money.
Carol
Did ya’ll learn nothing from Kelly Siegler’s fall from grace by attacking Lakewood as loonies, nuts and screwballs? Didn’t you learn that the local Republican party chief goes to Lakewood?
We at Lake wood are well educated teachers, doctors, lawyers, moms, fathers………Cults try to woo you into a certain belief; we at Lakewood believe in love, Jesus Christ and God. I’m going to do what Joel tells us to do, come to church with me and you’ll never be the same.
Ya’ll are wasting a lot of negative time bashing the Osteens. Why not do good with your words. Complement someone. Do something for others and you wouldn’t have time to screed.
Vanessa Day
If someone is a christian and does something that is considered “unchristian” Satan is right there to take advantage. With the price of a first class ticket being what it is I would have expected that my seat, lab table or whatever it was be clean when I boarded the plane. I think the fight attendant knew she hadn’t cleaned the seat and knew who Victoria was and over reacted. The flight attendant said her breasts were shoved up against the wall – please explain how your breast and hemmoroids are connected.
Sarah
Wow! I’m glad you people posting on this site will not be judging me when I get to Heaven. I didn’t know that once i accepted Jesus Christ as my savior that i am supposed to be perfect. You make it sound as if I can never do anything or say anything wrong. No one should hold any pastors or their wives/family members to a higher standard or idolize them for that matter. We all need to pray that we can forgive the Osteens (even though they didn’t offend us directly) and just keep praising the Lord. Don’t take offense to this situation and just continue to do the opposite of what you think & say is wrong. that way you never end up having to defend yourself like they are having to do. Keep believing in Jesus and pray that no one or nothing can ever cause you doubt your faith in Christ. Don’t let your strong opions of offenders cause you to say things that sound so unforgiving. if that’s the case you might as well join the lady sueing the Osteens. Unbelievable that this one incident would cause her to lose faith. I hate to see what would happen to her if she was ever truly devestated. I’ll pray for her.
Lambo
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
Cheryl
oh no!
this is in the news again!
dave, i really do think this is a money-grab now that it has gone to court and more information is being made public.
Catawba
I am out of the loop and have only been made aware of this Osteen issue today…….as a busy parent with 3 kids, I watch little tv and am lucky to grab the newspaper now and then. Anyways….a few thoughts from a professed Christian.
God has always and will continue to use people who are incredibly blemished and imperfect to accomplish His will (thank goodness). Moses, Aaron, Paul, David….the list goes on and you are included as well.
Whether celebrity Christian (isn’t that an oxymoron?), or a small -town Believer, we are constantly observed and observe others. Whether we should or should not judge (we shouldn’t), one never knows when his or her actions will cause another Christian to stumble or an unbeliever to lock up his heart a bit tighter. Despite the hypocrisy of our actions though, don’t let it trip you up because our faulty behavior is not the nature of God and Christ Jesus. Look to Christ for your role model, not others ultimately. People will always fail you in some area. Not Christ.
God and His Holy Spirit continually teaches us and will bring to our attention in small and big ways, our weak areas. Despite not knowing what truly, truly happened, I am sure at many levels, Mrs. Olsteen and her husband have been faced with many “learning” experiences, i.e., santification, the lifelong process of being made more holy…
girlpower
I’m tired of people making excuses for the Osteens. Yes, as human beings they are flawed, but as well-known Christian Leaders they are and should be held at a higher standard because they have the power to influence people on a grand scale whether it be good or bad. This situation is going to trial because they wanted to fight for their repuation and sense of “not doing anything wrong” . By this action, it seems, they have removed all humility and forgiveness.
Don H.
What bothers me reading the various pro and con posts about the Osteens is how everyone seems to miss the point. Christians are held to a higher standard. Pastors are held to an even higher standard, not just by man but by God.
Yes we are all sinners but as Christians we need to keep in mind that we are all also ministers. We may not stand in a pulpit and preach but how we live our lives and our interaction with others are watched by everyone. That one moment of letting our temper get the best of us may be the time our action has the most impact on a non-believer or someone who is considering their faith decision. It may not be fair but our actions and reactions can be an inspiration or a discouragement.
Even if Mrs. Osteen didn’t act as badly as the flight attendant claims; just getting into an altercation gives an opening to satan, atheists and general anti-Christian malcontents.
Additionally, the Osteens cult like following turns off a lot of people. Some who have written in here defending them can’t seem to get past the Osteens aura. They defend the “God wants us to win the lottery: self-help and prosperity message; although the Bible doesn’t quite say that. While Christ wants the best for us; he didn’t preach Christian prosperity on earth. Our reward for service is in eternity.
A pastor I know was asked once how a person could spot a preacher who is a fraud. His reply was simple but spoke volumes, “If the preacher emphasizes his personality more than God’s and spends more time selling his books and trinkets than salvation, a person would have a right to be suspicious.”
When you click on the Osteen’s ministry website you see a variety of pictures of them, book offers and other minsitry programs. But it’s the Christian celebrity that jumps out at you. It’s kind of the “Jesus Christ Superstar” personna. No don’t get me wrong, the disciples could be called the Christian celebrities of their day but the message of Christ didn’t get lost in the glitz of show business and high production values.
The Osteens could be totally committed to God’s ministry but their sincerity gets lost in the smile and the sales pitch for their latest book.
vicki chase
The HolySpirit convicts. Let’s pray for our brothers and sisters in the faith. As a christian who has fallen short many times I can testify that GOD desciplines those he loves. The Osteens need our love and prayers.
Sharon F.
It doesn’t seem to occur to anybody that maybe she really doesn’t have much to apologize for! Does the media always portray things as they are? Not by a long shot. They sell the best story, not the boring truth. I think it’s highly likely that the two women had an snitty situation and some attitude toward each other. That happens from time to time–we’re all human. Whoop de doo. One of them decided to seize an opportunity to reach into what she perceived to be a “deep pocket” and decided to make a big deal out of very little. I feel sorry for the Osteens.
D.E.
pray for Victoria Osteen as she is going thru her trial, that she may feel the love that comes from other christians around the world,and continue to rise above the negitivity of the event that took place on the plane and that she may know as christ loved and died for her that we continue to remember her good deeds and believe in her ability to continue on.
Deb
I have made a few mistakes in my time and when I talked about it being an “unfortunate event and regreting that it happened” I believe I was saying I was sorry.
what do you want from her ?? does she need to write it in blood or what??
sometimes people can be famous and think they deserve special attention …..but I will tell you this sometimes when your famous for what you do people want to see you fall and are more than excited to see it happen if they think they have something on you,
Diana Garcia -Rodriguez
Why should she apologize if she did nothing wrong??? Think about this for a minute…do you really think Victoria would ask her children and husband to lie for her? I know she is innocent because no one could harbor that and still stand before millions and minister Jesus’ word. If she did ANYTHING wrong her husband and children were eye witnesses. There is no way in Hadys she would have them lie for her. I think the eye witness that has come forward for the stewardess probably agreed to split the money. Why would she ask for ten percent??? Only God is aloud to ask for ten percent!!!
Jason
Christians are funny people. The fact is we might never really know what happened on that plane. Mrs. Osteen could have been out of line, or she could be the victim. You also have to remember that the person suing her is suing her for 10% of her net worth. That is a lot of money! Things are not always black & white… there is a big middle grey. This bickering, fighting, and finger pointing is a solid characteristic that seems to come hand in hand in Christianity. Why is that?
Vern and Marsha Vance
Seems like Joel and Victoria Osteen are stepping up to the plate to be the next Jim and Tammy Bakker of the 21st century. Wish we could fly to Vail, Colorado, let alone first class!
Bring in damage control!
Vern Vance
Deacon Hector
I guess that what Mrs. Osteen lacks is humility. I don’t think her money makes her so, because I have seen wealthy individuals who have it. I can’t say what causes her to have a higher regard for herself, than for those around her. Yet, in having a proud heart, Mr’s Osteen hurts all of us of faith, because it seems that we are all proud and conceited, because we are “saved”. Jesus, in His final moments on the cross, pardoned those who crucified Him, telling God to “…forgive them, for they know not what they do”. In the same way, we must forgive Mr’s Osteen, for the very same reason. The courts? That is for the jury to decide…
Anonymous
When I first heard this story, I jumped to the conclusion of “Shame on Mrs. Osteen… what a hypocrite.” But now… now that I hear that the defendant is suing for 10% of her net worth!? Over anxiety and hemoroids?! Now that is absolutely outlandish and I will be so disgusted if she wins. I look back and think of all the people I could’ve sued in my lifetime for causing me “anxiety,” and stress that led to physical problems. If she wins, it will only lead to bigger, more frivolous lawsuits and seriously, nonw of us are “safe” from a lawsuit.
I also highly doubt that Mrs. Osteen committed what she said she did. I have read various comments by people and have been amazed at the hatred towards Mrs. Osteen. People who don’t know her, weren’t on the plane, don’t have the full story, but because she is wealthy, attractive, and a Christian, people want to see her suffer and “punished” because of their own envy and bitterness towards wealthy people as well as Christians.
I once confronted a co-worker about something very, very minor. Basically I said, “I’m sorry I have been standoffish lately… I just feel that you have not been letting me have any input in our meetins.” She is older, and insecure, and she literally fell to pieces. We were teachers, and she started shouting, “No, no! No, I am not listening to this,” and she went to her room sobbing to the point she had to have her aide cover the class. She called administration, and in the end, because she was immature and couldn’t handle a very minor confrontation, and because my admin. wasn’t there to witness it, and all anyone else saw was this lady falling to pieces, it was assumed that I must’ve really abused her…. even though I had no history whatsoever of being a trouble-maker, confronter, abuser, etc.
It’s pretty easy to say someone caused us stress, anxiety, “loss of faith,” or even “hemoroids”… all they have to do is look at us wrong, ignore us, call us names, etc… if we have a big enough fit, we can easily make them look guilty.
The very fact that this women has sued, and for such an outlandish amount, tells me that she is a “crybaby” who is out for revenge and money. EVEN IF Victoria treated her rudely and EVEN IF she “elbowed her” (which I doubt)… I would like to say to this lady… “get over it” and “grow up!”
Lizzy
I agree……. maybe this is the way God is telling Mrs. Olseen she needs to be more humble, and show some of the charasteristics of what it means to be a real christian, not just a public figure. A real Christian is known by their fruits, and I’m just not seeing any here…. this was a perfect oportunity for her to show, that us as christians we are not perfect but we are heading into perfection by admitting we have flaws and imperfections and taking responsibility for our actions and asking for forgivness when is necessary….
Tom
Interesting discussions here. Take away all the flashy elements at the core here is something happened and both parties felt wronged. Sadly, both sides claim to be follower of Christ, yet the incident has escalated this far; to the secular public and shaming the name of our Lord.
I think the following statements from the original post would have served them both right and ourselves in the countless conflicts we get ourselves into daily.
“I pray that the Osteens will handle this in a way that demonstrates the humility and grace of Jesus. We all make mistakes. It is how we respond to them that can make a difference. Repenting and repairing by asking forgiveness is a very good way to practice damage control.”
Delanah Gebhart
I don’t think that it makes anyone less a Christian to stand up for themselves and since no one can say what really occured on the flight between Mrs. Osteen and the flight attendant I believe that no one has the right to judge Victoria. I haven’t heard anything, in this article or in the numerous articles that have been written about the incident that would lead me to believe that Victoria acted in Un-Christian manner. It seems to me that people have an attitude that Christians should be mealy mouthed spineless weaklings that accept whatever abuse or injustices that are thrown at them, should never complain or ask for anything extra and just accept whatever crumbs are thrown their way. The Osteens paid for their seats just like everyone else on that plane. And if anyone of them (the other passengers) had been seated in a seat that was wet and expected to fly for hours with a wet rear-end they would have complained as well. Come on people get real!!!!
Mary
It does not matter who you are famous or not. If she did pay to get a good service, it means a dry seat in an airplane, why could the Osteen woman accept a different thing? Do not we complain of getting a bad item in a store and we go back to the mall to get back our money or to get the good item? She did not pay for a wet seat.
Andy
Being a servant of Christ is probably THE most difficult thing there is to do well. As humans, we fail. There is no other end product. We are all sinners, and even as Christians, failure is a part of life. But the difference is forgiveness. I don’t know what ‘really’ happened on that plane. And I doubt the true story will ever be known. I don’t think I’d like to sit in a wet seat, especially if I don’t know the source of wetness. And if it wasn’t cleaned up properly, I would expect most reasonable folks to make a scene. I’ve spent 5 or more hours on a flight in a seat and who, in their right mind, would want to sit in a seat that may have been used as a urinal. Not me. And I doubt you would. I’d make an effort to have it cleaned up properly. And if it was only sopped up and a blanket used to cover it, I’d expect more. We are flying soon and have spent nearly a grand for each ticket. Would you sit in a dirty, wet seat after spending that kind of money? Wouldn’t you do something to make sure it was clean and sanitary if, while boarding, you found your seat wet from an unknown source?
Lillian
Thanks for showing grace and humility in your post. It seems many of us are little better than Victoria Osteen if we must react with such vitriol over this situation. It saddens me to see one of my sisters in the Lord apparently acting as reported, however I must be careful about judging another man’s (God’s) servant. Instead of lining up on one side or the other I believe we should pray for Victoria, the flight attendant, and God’s glory to be manifest through this.
kenzone
yes, the christian life is messy and in some respects more messy than religiosity would have portrayed.
where the issue tends to lean is ” leaders vs the layperson”.
society states that directorship from the pulpit has preeminent authority and should in no way be impugned, thats the underlying query,
it should be noted this ideology is far from new.
one only has to refer back in time to rome’s attempt at definitive jurisdiction—the french protestants opposition to the catholic church in the 16th century— it’s oppression, a liscence to grab that microphone and hold court, and you know what——– people today can see right through it.
JoeZone
Give the woman a break! Its amazing how the official role of ‘pastor’ has allowed the Osteens to exercise an amazing global ministrry, with preaching that has truly touched my heart. There is a flip side that we see here. Typical of the downside of Enlightenment modernity, the culture of church leadership in the west is imbedded with a discourse surrounding the role of a pastor that has become so naturalized, pastors are artificially elevated to an us vs. them dichotemy, burdened with the baggage of reductionist religious expectations and CEO-like methodologies. These people are pastors and leaders, but also are human, warts and all. God bless them, and look a little deeper at the discourse that seeks to divide, separate, exclude, fault-find, show difference, use the scripture like a weapon to pick these people apart. Sounds like the religious systems that Jesus was contending with in his day. The (Christian) life is messier than that. God bless the Osteens!
ken desjarlais
a marriage usually consists of 2 people that are complete opposites. in this case joel is the honorable, humble likeable guy,and victoria is the easily ticked off, whiner who you wouldn’t dare crossing for fear of a hissy-fit that she has so amply displayed.she’s human, so what.the problem is that people elevate them to heirachal status as ministers and pastors wheras they can’t be faulted for anything.the good book says that we are ALL ministers.when people watch these evangelists, they should extrapilate the positive and good spoken and avoid looking up to anyone in general, garnishing a walk with god for themselves.but people can be weakwilled and gullible.
Linda O
Joel Osteen’s book and messages have changed my life. I feel strongly that his heart is in the right place and that his words are very compassionate and healing. His work should not be diminished by actions that were out of his control.
Dayna
until you walk in someone else’s shoes….
r.
if she had been just a jane doe…..she would have been taken to jail.after 911 storming a cockpit….well need i say more.seems to me she got off easy.
Kathy G.
I have always really enjoyed and been inspired by Joel’s teachings. It is only until recently that I recorded a service on TV and watched the entire thing, and it was the first time I ever even saw Victoria or knew of her. It is odd that the first thing that popped into my head was “she seems very ungenuine”. Then I find out about this plane incident that happened two years ago and “wow” is all I can say. Your article is spot on. Her lack of apology or humility, really, to me, stands to simply confirm my initial hugely strong intuition about a potential selfish and self-serving nature that she seems to reflect?? We ALL fail, and do some pretty horrible things in this life, Christian or not, but her “lack of” response and humility and apology is really the key, and it is in poor taste in my opinion. If she was ordered to pay a fine by the FAA after an objective investigation, obviously she was engaged in some pretty distasteful stuff. She owes an apology and a sense of humility. It would be a wonderful thing for the congregation to see — how to act when one was clearly in the wrong. The way she has sidestepped that, to me, speaks volumes about her personal character, or lack thereof. I still like watching Joel though and reading his books. He seems genuine through and through. I feel for him if my suspicions about her are correct….
N.Lewis
I have been at Lakewood for about 3 years today was the first time I met Victoria, it was a Dr.’s office. She sat and waited just like the rest of us and when I went to shake her hand she was very polite and asked how my daughter was (Pediatiricans). I think this whole situation is all about "The Osteen name" had she been just a Jane Doe, this would not be an issue. I don’t know what happened, but I DO know that as a human, we All fall short.
God Bless,
N.Lewis
Dave
Comment to Runner…
Send me an email address that I can respond to and I will answer your questions.
Dave
Selena
I have read some pretty self righteous posts. let me get this right. Some folks are not going to watch Joel any longer because his wife is human??Good bye Dr Phil & Oprah and anyone else that lives and breaths. And who really knows what truly happened??!?!? Were any of you guys there?!?!?! Maybe the flight attendant was having a bad day? There is something called spiritual warfare….
Maybe Victoria feels like her character was attacked. Then she gets a bunch of loving christians who seem to delight in other peoples shortcomings and who are ready to cast stones and expect her to apologize. Maybe she was the one that was wronged? NAH, Human nature doesn’t tend to jive with that scenario does it? Dirt on the preachers’ wife, my sin nature like that…
I don’t need anyones forgiveness for my spelling and grammar, when you die on the cross for me, then I’ll repent.
Selena Parsley
clh
Please forgive me because I made two typos in the previous post.
The word in cannot (not connot) and the word is apologizing (not apolgizing).
Thanks.
clh
I used to watch Joel Osteen very often and really liked his sermons. Something started bothering me when I saw the introduction of the show and Victoria would appear with him like it was her ministry too. Joel inherited that ministry from his father and the church. Seeing her in the opening looked like she was trying to put herself forward. That bothered me for a few months and then I read the story about the airplane. My thoughts about Victoria were validated. Really, if you think about it have you seen a minister’s wife make that kind of "celebrity gone to her head" mistake? I connot recall one and that shows how grievous her mistake was (especially not properly apolgizing for it.).
The airplane incident and Mr. Osteen’s Larry King interview have caused me to not watch Joel Osteen’s program anymore. That makes me sad because before the Victoria fiasco, I bought Mr. Osteen’s book and journal.
nil
they are human beings like anyone else and they have feelings like we do. They are not supernatural beings and no one should judge them as bad or idols……..for Gods sake leave them alone……….. Only God knows the secrets of their hearts and one He will judg them on the final day if they ever meisled one of his children…
moon
yes, everyone makes mistakes. i, too have had my bad days, when i may have been short, or rude. but to throw a fit on a PLANE with all the rules & regulations? this is a definite character flaw in my eyes. she can dissect the situaton all she wants and throw god and forgiveness into it. but it does not make the average person look at her as the "preacher" she so longs to be.
Margaret Lee
Her behaviour is bad; totally unbecoming of an average person let alone a pastor’s wife. I can no longer look at her and even her husband the same. Why didn’t Joel do something to stop Victoria from continuing to behave in such a bad manner towards those flight attendants? Unbelievable!!!
kn
ugh
Gigi
The only thing I find sinful is the state of grammar and spelling.
Julie March
I really enjoy listening to Joel Osteen. However, after getting a few more details about the plane incident – may be Victoria was having a bad day. The way I heard it she appeared to have let their celebrity go to her head. I can see how that happens when everyone is saying Oh my, you are the best and you saved me and I love you, etc. You start to really believe it because it makes you feel great. Then those accolades can really go to a person’s head. Not everyone is perfect by any means. I think it would have been much better had she apologized for her bad behavior and be done with it. I think denying and taking no responsibility for her part in the incident is just being prideful. I think people would really understand. She was on Larry King recently. Not sure if it was a rerun but she said it was nothing situation. And she didn’t want to blame anyone instead of just taking responsibility and it certainly sounds like she had started the whole incident. I’ll still listen to him but I really hope we don’t hear something surprising later on (similar to so many other famous people) for example he is caught cheating on his wife. I really do think he seems like one heck of a nice guy but I used to feel that way about Bill O’Reilly!
Mary Trimm
just because you are famous doesnt mean you have the right to be mean to someone.
Byron
I am a preacher that was good friends with Joel Osteen’s father,
Rev. John Osteen. I have only met Joel on a few ocassion’s and have found him to be a nice, young, preacher. Someone wrote above that there is something wrong with him or his ministry. Most likely, the person that wrote that is an unbeliever or someone in need of Bible study. THERE HAS ONLY BEEN ONE PERSON THAT HAS NEVER SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.
JESUS
I am vary sure that the Oteens are sorry, and regrat the insident.
If anyone can name me a person that never has sinned after their salvation, Please name them——————————–
Bro. Byron
Justwondering
This is what I don’t understand, why write an article saying what someone else did is wrong. What purpose does it serve? For one, she probably is not going to read it so you are not really correcting her. I can understand if you write a letter to her expressing your opininon..but writing an article about this simply anounces her "wrongdoing" to others who would not have known otherwise. I bet you can still get the other great points you made in tha article across without mentioning her or the incident
Dave
As a head of a nonprofit Christian ministry, I always have to temper what I would like to do as a Christian person and what my legal advisers are advising me to do as the head of the ministry. In a culture where ministries can be sued for millions of dollars, I cringe when the words lawsuit, lawyers or court are mentioned. I am not sure what is happening in this cause. So when we look on from the outside and look for statements from them saying, "please forgive me" or "I am Sorry", we have to be aware that lawyers and the court may look at those statements quite differrently. I know this puts heads of ministry in interesting situations on trying to balance their reputatation, the reputation of the ministry and legal issues.
I submit this with much fear and trembling at being misunderstood. I don’t think it is as easy to say that "I am wrong, I am sorry or forgive me." On the other hand, maybe it is that easy. My heart trembles with the responsibility of CHristians with such influence
Tina Comstock
Ugh. . . It is unfortunate when people look to other humans as thier examples of how to live and be. Thats when we go into judging sin in degrees. "well, I never killed anyone, so I’m okay. . . " God sees sin as sin. In James it says "to him who knows what to do and does it not, it is sin." This has been my biggest focus personally. Though I may not swipe a few products when I go to wal-mart, or lie outright to my spouse, I still have a problem doing some things I know I should, like saying "hi" Sunday morning to the new couple at church, or the couple going through problems. I find it interesting how people look at Pastors and thier spouse’s and family as more than human. They are just like us, they just have a greater responsibility, and a greater burden than we do. And Pastors need friends, they need to know that you are praying for them and that you care about them. October is Pastor appreciation month, be sure to personally make yours feel appreciated.
Steve Goss
And this story is not over yet. According to the news article, Mrs. Osteen intends to let the suit go to trial.
Sounds like a lose/lose situation for the cause of Christ.
Joy
I have watchced Joel Osteen before and I just have a feeling that there is something wrong there however, I do not know his heart, only God does but I really feel there is a huge problem when people look at him as their idol? When we take our eyes off of the Lord Jesus and start looking at people….then we might as well worship a statue of stone. I believe that the pastors and their wives do have a huge responsiblity & especially someone that is in the lime light like they are. I think that it is very sad the way she responded AND I believe that we need to just make sure they are both in our prayers….we should pray that they may grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ and God will help them see where they are making their mistakes.