Today I would love your feedback on three questions that kept roiling my relaxation over the weekend. Of course I couldn’t think of asking three questions without a flashback to Monty Python’s Search for the Holy Grail.
Fellow Bad Christians will remember this exchange.
Arthur: There’s the old man from Scene 24!
Bedevere: What is he doing here?
Arthur: He is the keeper of the Bridge of Death. He asks each traveler five questions–
Knight: Three questions.
Arthur: Three questions. He who answers the five questions–
Knight: Three questions.
So here are my three, five, three questions. I await your wisdom.
Question Number One.
What is your favorite color?
Sorry…still in Monty Python mode. The real question relates to a post I wrote last week called Plane Speaking. It was written about the lawsuit filed against Victoria Osteen. Regular readers of these ramblings know that I am a stickler for civil discourse. So I graciously received a gentle rebuke on my thoughts from this reader.
- As a head of a nonprofit Christian ministry, I always have to temper what I would like to do as a Christian person and what my legal advisers are advising me to do as the head of the ministry. In a culture where ministries can be sued for millions of dollars, I cringe when the words lawsuit, lawyers or court are mentioned. I am not sure what is happening in this cause. So when we look on from the outside and look for statements from them saying, “please forgive me” or “I am Sorry”, we have to be aware that lawyers and the court may look at those statements quite differently. I know this puts heads of ministry in interesting situations on trying to balance their reputation, the reputation of the ministry and legal issues. I submit this with much fear and trembling at being misunderstood. I don’t think it is as easy to say that “I am wrong, I am sorry or forgive me.” On the other hand, maybe it is that easy. My heart trembles with the responsibility of Christians with such influence
I always want to be fair and grace filled in my comments. So this thoughtful response made me think that perhaps I was out of line in expecting some public statement from Mrs.Osteen. But the more I thought about that reasoning the more troubled I became. While I completely understand the fear of lawsuits (I have been threatened a time or two) I wonder if that should outweigh the fear of God? Should a legal strategy overrule an obedient response? What is our responsibility to represent the name of Jesus versus our responsibility to protect our ministry or personal assets? Have we allowed the law (in this case the lawyers and lawsuits) to keep us from extending grace? This is a larger question than the Victoria Osteen situation. I ask this with all sincerity.
What should our response be as Christians when we make a mistake (or perceived mistake) that could have legal ramifications?
Question Number Two.
I may not get a response to this one. Occasionally (depending on topics) I get visits and feedback from agnostics and atheists. The Sam Harris post brought many visitors to this site who do not believe in God. Mr. Harris often complains about the venomous response from Christians to his comments. I should let Mr.Harris know that the ugly runs both ways. I have had my intellectual capabilities questioned in some very unflattering terms by those who deny faith. But others who do not believe in God have been kind and even complimentary of the tone I try to set. I agree that it can be pretty easy to dismiss some who claim the title of Christian. Many skeptics write off faith as a crutch for the weak, uneducated, and naive. I can understand that even as I disagree. But what about those who do not fit into a category you can easily dismiss? I am genuinely interested if you (atheists/agnostics) think that all believers are delusional or intellectually inferior? There are many people of great intellect that are Christians. Many have become Christians who were not “brain-washed” as children. Millions who do not need an emotional crutch to survive well in the culture call themselves Christians. Others who have no cultural predisposition to this faith. Here is my question for those who deny faith.
Are you at all unsettled by the successful and intelligent people who endorse faith in God completely?
Question Number Three
I have been humbled and even a bit shamed by the amazing grace of the Amish victims in Pennsylvania. I wrote a post about that last week called Where do you see Jesus?
The actions of the Amish faithful this weekend again caused me to stop and examine my own commitment to Christ. Here is an excerpt from a column written by Brian Dickerson in the Detroit Free Press.
- Charles Roberts IV, who killed himself after shooting 10 helpless schoolgirls, wasn’t Amish himself. But his milk delivery route included the farms of many Amish families, including that of 13-year-old Marian Fisher, one of those killed in Roberts’ rampage. So when the Fisher family made plans for Marian’s funeral, they naturally invited her killer’s widow and children. It wasn’t an impulsive invitation, issued in a moment of vengeful anger — Come see what that monster did! — but a reflexive recognition that Roberts’ survivors, too, were part of a community in need of healing. Two days later, when the shooter’s body was laid to rest, the mourners included dozens of Amish.
I know some dismiss the Amish response as weakness. I think you could not be more wrong. Their actions reflect a strength that is incomprehensible. It takes no strength to hate. It takes incredible strength to forgive. The Amish have made a choice. They made a choice to totally commit to Christ and to one another. They made a choice to not let hate and bitterness consume them. They made a choice to reach out and show a doubting world what the love of Jesus looks like. I am ashamed when I examine my life by comparison. No more jokes about the Amish from me. The Amish may feel free to make jokes about me. I have a lot to learn about what it really means to follow Jesus.
My final question is for self-examination.
Jesus, am I really willing and ready to follow You?
Bear
Q: I am genuinely interested if you (atheists/agnostics) think that all believers are delusional or intellectually inferior? … Are you at all unsettled by the successful and intelligent people who endorse faith in God completely?
A: The short answer to the first question is "no." Certainly not intellectually inferior. There are too many believers, and I’ve met too many brilliant ones, to take that statement seriously for even a moment. As to delusional, that’s more complicated. My handy desktop dictionary defines "delusion" as "an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument." Clearly belief in God isn’t idiosyncratic, so we could just go with "no" on this answer too, but that would be letting me off the hook too easily.
The rub, for me, comes at the point at which religion and science intersect. One aspect of intelligence, and a rather important one, I think, is the ability to update one’s beliefs based on new evidence. For the most part this doesn’t really cut one way or another on the religion question, since faith is all about belief in the absence of proof. But when there’s a substantial body of evidence to suggest that some aspect of one’s religious belief system is mistaken in the particulars (let’s say, evidence that diseases evolve to become resistant to antibiotics, contra the belief that evolution just doesn’t happen at all), I confess that I do end up wondering how an apparently large number of people are comfortable ignoring or discounting that evidence. I don’t mean to touch off a debate on the subject, and I hope I don’t. I’m just trying to answer the questions above as candidly as I can.
That said, I have encountered many believers who have tried very hard, and to my mind reasonably successfully, to resolve the apparent contradictions between their religious belief and the evidence offered by science. Sometimes they’ve pointed to reasonable doubt regarding scientific results; more often they’ve pointed to ambiguity in scripture that permits them to accommodate those results. To my mind, this kind of person rates as considerably more intelligent than average, because he or she has taken the time to investigate the matter and come to a reasoned conclusion, rather than simply dismissing one side or the other out of hand.
In short, there is no doubt huge variation in the intelligence of believers, just as there is huge variation in the intelligence of nonbelievers, and the variation within each group is probably bigger than the variation across them.
As to being unsettled by successful and intelligent people who endorse faith in God completely, no, doesn’t faze me a bit. In matters of faith, it would be very surprising if reasonable (and very intelligent) people didn’t disagree. As I just wrote, there’s undoubtedly huge variation in intelligence across both groups, so it would be just plain odd if one didn’t have people at the upper tail of the distribution as well as at the lower tail.
The more I think about it, the more that seems like an odd question. Do you mind if I ask whether you’re unsettled by the successful and intelligent people who DON’T endorse faith in God completely?
Dave
In this day and age, the words "I am sorry" are very powerful. The bible says "The truth shall set us free." The responsibilities of "influential" Christians are real and have great impact on those around. Of course, all of us are "influential" Christians. SOme have a wider impact than others on the surface, but who knows who we will effect. I struggle with my actions, attitudes and behaviors as I become more well known in the region I serve. I struggle not because I fear reprisal for my wrongdoing but I fear for misrepresentation, slander and the like that may affect those I serve and respresent. In a day and age when everything is broadcast, it seems that the slightest misstep becomes a international affair. It is difficult to know who we should say "I am sorry" to. Should I say I am sorry to the one who took offense but misunderstood. Should I say I am sorry to the people who hurt because of offense and the subsequent broadcast of misrepresentation and misconception. I guess what frightens me is the power of the internet and other media forms that allows issues that could be dealt with personaly to become so personal to so many people that are not directly involved.
Wandering thoughts from someone who desires genuine repentance in all too "public" world.
PS. I have appreciated the replies to my previous post as it has challenged me to think more about my response and my responsibility as a Christian and as a leader
Tina Comstock
Hey, dave! My favorite color is red, no wait, blue! AAAAAaaaa! thud;)
Amen. I so agree that arguing with people of no faith is almost pointless. God is the only one who can change them, and if they are changed as a result of our example as christians, that is a blessing. Hopefully a lot of us learned something from the amish these past few weeks. They are truly amazing people. I wonder what some of thier jokes about us would be? Or even if they have any?
Blake Coffee
Dave-
I’m an attorney–one of those who represents people and organizations who are being sued by folks who feel wronged. I am also a founder and exec. director of a Christian non-profit ministry, whose mission includes teaching forgiveness and confession to Christians. I’d like to respond to question #1.
It’s a no-brainer. Fears of legal ramifications should NEVER dictate a Christian’s response. For that matter, fear of ANYTHING AT ALL (except for God) should not be dictating our behavior. God did not give us a Spirit of fear.
Scripture is filled with examples: Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were not "swayed" by their fears of the legal ramifications of their actions. Nehemiah chose his course in the face of those same kinds of fears, as did Isaiah, Jeremiah and countless others.
As a Christian attorney, my advice to my clients has always been to tell the truth, even if it hurts. The prodigal son taught us that a huge part of confession is beig willing to accept the consequences, even if they don’t seem fair ("I no longer deserve to be called your son"). A real confession relinquishes all rights to a "fair" consequence. Sadly, we in America are always more concerned about our own sense of justice than Godliness.
jeff
Question 1. Seems the Bible teaches to admit wrong and if they want to sue the coat off your back, go ahead and give them the coat. Easier said than done, but that’s what it says.
Question 2: As a believer, I am frequently unsettled by the succesful and intelligent people of faith!
Question 3. The Spirit is willing; the flesh is weak.
Sharon McCommas Burr
Dave,
I will only comment on your first question and how your blogs on the subject have affected me. I don’t know about legal ramifications, but I know that I am personally more aware of my tendency to follow the words "I’m sorry" with the word "but…". I have made a conscious effort to eliminate the "but" and stick with "I’m sorry", take responsibility and try to make amends.
The entire Body of Christ should be humbled by the Christ-like response of the Amish in the midst of unimaginable tragedy and grief.
Sharon
Shawn - Ohio
Hello Dave. I’ll give my answer for question #2 and comment on #3.
Dave:
Many skeptics write off faith as a crutch for the weak, uneducated, and naive. … I am genuinely interested if you (atheists/agnostics) think that all believers are delusional or intellectually inferior?
Shawn:
Delusional or inferior? Not all believers. Some? Yes. Many skeptics may write off faith, as a belief system, because those who support it may not give us reason to accept it. Or as in my case, lost faith because the answers to questions asked were unsatisfactory. Also, I was raised a Christian and studied the bible. It didn’t hold anymore clearer answers than I was given from those around me. Infact, the bible did more for my dropping faith than anything I could have conceived on my own.
Dave:
Are you at all unsettled by the successful and intelligent people who endorse faith in God completely?
Shawn:
I do have a tendancy to write off most faith-based belief systems because, by its very nature and definition, I don’t think that faith has foundation in reality nor does it have any claim to knowledge. Mind you I said faith-based "system", not person. With that said, even I, a human like most people I know, sometimes blur the line of a person and their belief system.
Am I "unsettled"? Depends on what subject and context. People in power that "listen to god" do unsettle me. People laying down laws that ALL must follow whom are very outwardly "faith-based" do unsettle me. Constitutional admendments about who can marry whom based on "God’s morality"? Oy vay!
Do I care that you, as an individual, believe? Nope. Do I wish that someday we’d have a human race that isn’t divided by religions and faith? You betcha. (not saying that I’d want a world full of one particular religion ;)).
Dave:
There are many people of great intellect that are Christians. Many have become Christians who were not “brain-washed” as children. Millions who do not need an emotional crutch to survive well in the culture call themselves Christians.
Shawn:
Is this an argumentum ad populum? 😉 Just teasing a little.
About the Amish:
I wish more religions were like them. We, as a self-proclaimed Christian nation, have a lot to learn from this community. I think the rest of the world would have a more favorable outlook on the US if we behaved a little more like the Amish.
Keep up the good work Dave and thanks for the dialog between faith v. non-faith.
-Shawn
A grain of reason in the ocean of faith.
Darcel
Dearest Dave,
Thank you for your incredible touching story showing the faith of the Amish as they walk through this tragedy. Only our Heavenly Father’s love within their hearts, and keeping their eye’s on Christ, have given them the ability to act in such a forgiving, thoughtful way toward the other victims in this story..the widow and children of the shooter.
I have forwarded your column to all 40 of my contacts, and may each of them forward it to 40 of their contacts!
God Bless,
Darcel